Posts by Lily Pie

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

Lily Pie

Hey. I never really come to this site. But I felt like a lurk tonight. And I happened upon this. And I think I can help so I will try a reply.

Love amongst themselves. I'm drawn to 1Corin 13 Love never ends, all will pass away. The one thing that will remain is love. Love is a fruit of the Spirit. Christians will manifest deep love for people, and most importantly they fall in love with God. This love is almost supernatural. Find a church family with genuine love. This love must be full of Grace (Unmerited favor) there must be no conditions placed on it. It must not be an 'effort' or 'work' for the person supplying it. The only work of God is to 'believe' John 6v29 This is because the Spirit does the rest. Jeremiah 31:33-34 also Hebrews 10:16-17 also Ezekiel36v25 john7:38

Preach the Good News. In Acts, Paul is 'led" by the Spirit showing him who and where the gospel was to be targetted. The disciples were also 'filled' with the Holy Spirit for preaching the Gospel. The majority of Christians will be led by the Spirit into many different life circumstances where we will meet the very people God is looking to target. Let me explain.. There is no such thing as a coincidence... Because we know this, and God speaks to us directly in many ways, we will have the confidence to introduce Jesus to our acquaintance in just the right way and time. Other Christians will have a bolder Calling. They Pastor or lead groups reaching out to the community at large. All Christian churches also have free groceries, meals, accomodation and even transport solutions for the most vulnerable in our community. Usually the most despised people in our community I might add. Also Christian churches will financially support missions. The congregation will get updates on these missions the church is specifically helping to fund. Many of the churches members will have done some mission work. Mission is basically planting churches. Have you heard of Gideons? Is there any bible in any hospital, hotel room or waiting room that was not placed there by that particular Christian (non denom) organisation?

Gather together for worship. The church is the Bride of Christ. God takes what the world thinks is foolish and glorifies it. Jesus Christ was crucified, put to shame. It is totally laughable to the ancient world, and even in the modern world that we would call our Wonderful King - a man who was crucified. A death dealt only to the despised and ugly, as it was even illegal for Roman citizens to be executed this way. How fitting then that the bride of Christ is the Church, an ugly thing to those whos eyes have not been opened. Even long time Christians struggle with it. It is not neccesary to attend a particular church. But it is neccessary to have some Christian fellowship. If church does not suit many churches will have small bible studies or many other opportunities for social interaction. Anyone who belongs to Christ is a member of the Church. To belong to Christ one needs to 'know' God specifically through Jesus. John10 Also read 1Corin 12 regarding each playing the part determined by God for them to play in the Church.

You need to pray on this. If you ask, and listen patiently, you will hear. xxx

67

Is it possible to define faith in a simple, logical, unambiguous way?

by losthobbit in

i was wondering if it's actually possible to define what faith is in a simple, logical, unambiguous way.. .

i have a theory that words which cannot be defined in a simple, logical, unambiguous way do not really mean anything specific, and therefore should probably be avoided.. .

i know there have been books written on this subject, but i think that anyone who has to write an entire book to define a simple word like faith, does not really understand what it means.. .

Lily Pie

In the Christian religious context FAITH is best described by the single word TRUST.

LilyPie

14

When Jesus said THIS...that pesky little word..

by doubtful in

due to haste, i don't have time to cite texts, but perhaps others can do that for me, assuming i don't get a chance to do later on this evening.

but jesus, when asked about his second coming and of the conclusion of the system of things, he listed a series of portents as we all know, which concluded with multiple celestial phenomena, which according to him, were to be visible to all, just like lighting from one end of the sky to the other.

he then said that "this generation", referring to his generation of that time, would by no means pass away?

Lily Pie

The popular opinion is this. That Mark 13 is prophetically telling of two events that will happen in the future. The first is the second coming of Jesus Christ. The Second is the destruction of the temple in Jeruselum in 70AD. There are similarities between the two events. ?

note "Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will not disappear." A reminder that despite the difficulties of understanding this we should hold fast that God will do what he said he will do.

My study bible says - "This Generation" (or this age, or this nation) was to witness the fulfillment of these events. That generation did witness the destruction of Jersusalem. "

Those who want to intepret it as applying to the second coming need to see it this way "It could refer to the continued existence of the Jewish people, the whole human race, the Christian Community, or the lat generation of the end of time."

I have read somewhere that this is the most embarrassing set of scriptures in the bible for Christians. ?? But I disagree. We measure these things by our time, presuming that we see things the same way God sees them.

Mainstream Christians still believe that Jesus is coming, "that every eye will see" him decend. Strangely they feel it is imminent, and long for it because they want to hang out with Jesus. They also believe as, many of the reformationists did in the 15th century that part of the Kingdom of God is already with us. It is part of the "already here, but yet to come." In my opinion, I may be wrong, this is more driven by the spiritual revival than the fear of failed prophecy. Since Christians have God in them and have the supernatural power of Christ, it is natural to feel Gods blessings in thier life and thus feel as if they are already taking part in the fruits of Gods promised Kingdom.

I hope I have contributed something useful.

LilyPie

73

New Believers, Studying.

by cupcakekourtney88 in

jw
friends

hey y'all!

my name is kourtney and i am new to this form and jehovah witnesses.

right now i am studying the book "what does the bible really teach".

Lily Pie

Cupcake Courtney are you interested in God and learning about the bible? Or are you interested in becoming more involved with your familys religion for the sake of your family?

Jesus said I am the way, the truth, the life no one comes to the father except by me. John14

He also said "I am the door of the sheep... If anyone enters by me he will be saved...." John Ch10

You need to seek Jesus first. Then maybe have a think about the possibility of a supernatural God. Are your prayers being answered? Does it seem like God is trying to tell you something? Have you tried out the supernatual powers of grace and faith? Jehovah's Witnesses don't have any of it, because they do not magnify Jesus. They magnify a man lead organisation.

They also suggest that the rank and file believer does not have access to the Holy Spirit. This is because if everyone had the Holy Spirit than there would be no purpose for an organisation. The Bible says 'Don't you know that you are God's temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you?" 1Corin3:16 Really? What is it like to have the Holy Spirit live in you? Back in the OT the Isrealites used to carry the Holy Spirit around in an ark everywhere, because they needed it for success....it was a precarious business. Now God lives in us. WOW! This is clearly going to be a supernatural experience and give us amazing power. Yes yes yes!

The fastest growing Christian denominations are the Charismatic ones. You need to do more research.

If you are not interested in God at all, well maybe you should listen to the arguments for atheism, because that is far better for you than Witnessing.

Lily Pie

31

June 15 W/T - "Should Youths Get Baptised?"

by sizemik in

the above mentioned article caught my eye for a couple of reasons .

.. it is obvious to most observers that the children of active jw's provide a potential "large army" and in spite of the attrition rate of jw youths (around 2/3's i believe), it's a resource the borg are keen to maximise.

there tactics appear to be encouraging baptism at an ever younger age.

Lily Pie

It's evil. Absolutely disgusting. Well, now we know where Satan is hanging out. When ever I think of Wt Doctrine I think of Matt 23. They are filthy on the inside, to be held totally culpable, for this unethcial rackett. How can any one of school age totally comprehend the consequence of baptism in this cult? The law protects people who are unable by reason of age, mental defect, or unususal distress to understand the nature of the contracts that they enter. The WT and its members stand by and neglect to recognise that this might also be true for baptisms in an organisation that practices shunning of family members.

If you are currently a member of this group. I want you to have a good look at yourself now. Are you by your silence also responsible? Is there something you can reasonably do?

The extreme of social pressure in this group can be like having a gun put to your head. Poor kids.

Re: Baptisms - Rom 4:9-10 Faith is counted as righteousness before the religious rite.

Lily Pie

61

a couple questions for everyone here

by deservingone26 in

im just curious about a couple things:.

1. most of you seem to be pretty satisfied that you left the the witness world but now that your gone what drives you now?

what makes you excited about life?

Lily Pie

I don't know if it's worth adding an extra comment.

But. In my experience being raised in the stressful Jehovah's Witness home environment is more likely to be the contributer for alcoholism, drug abuse or having poor future direction.

Deservingone26. I suggest you join a sporting club, or something similar so you can meet some well adjusted people of your own age. Please make sure you get a proper skill and/or education. Please, pretty please look into doing these two things even if you do continue to go to Kingdom Hall.

You also said you want to learn more about the bible. Well read Galatians. Study it hard in different translations. www.biblegateway.com It is a short book. Paul is warning the Galatians against false gospel.

Blessings

Lily Pie

18

Witnesses at my door today

by Lily Pie in

so, i've been waiting for them to do the *rounds* here for a while.

and they finally turned up.. i lead the discussion towards holy spirt and personal relationship with god.

(personal relationship with god is really about interacting with the father, jesus & the spirit, not just the spirit - but i think emphasising spirit is a simple way to get across my point) i was curious about whether or not they had one.

Lily Pie

Thanks Lovely Lil! I'm sure God sent them to me for a reason. Either for my own development, or for the benefit of the JW's. Maybe both. We will see.

@cyberjesus: "How do you know God is on your side?" My twisted answer; I'm on God's side.

But you have really touched on the crux of the topic with this one. God could very well be friends with the Jehovah's Witness knocking on my door, I just don't know do I? Is their God less real than mine? (WT God isn't the real God, I'm talking about the God known by the individual witness). These subtleties interest me. Really have no investment in being right. This is the whole point of this thread for me, just really curious. For me God is a God of possibilities.

18

Witnesses at my door today

by Lily Pie in

so, i've been waiting for them to do the *rounds* here for a while.

and they finally turned up.. i lead the discussion towards holy spirt and personal relationship with god.

(personal relationship with god is really about interacting with the father, jesus & the spirit, not just the spirit - but i think emphasising spirit is a simple way to get across my point) i was curious about whether or not they had one.

Lily Pie

@Illuminator: No they coined the term not me... But I was very open that I knew quite a bit about their religion.

@ Black Sheep. Yeah, I knew they wouldn't know the answer. Thats why I asked it. And kept coming back to it... It occured to me that there are many black holes in JW bible knowledge. I kept the staple debate re: trinity, jesus and grace to the minimum. I dont want them to debate with me, I just want them to go home and read the bible for themselves . If they are actually interested in God, then they will.

@Monroe @ Mozzies Amen

@Punk @ Sweeny. This is what interests me the most. If they so desire God, enough to join this sect, then surely they should meet him. I really was trying to suss out from them how lifeless thier faith is, what strings I have to pull to bring it to life. It wasn't too dead though, still a spark of hope there.

@ Heaven "No, you didn't waste your time" Thank You!

Thanks everyone for your great input so far.

18

Witnesses at my door today

by Lily Pie in

so, i've been waiting for them to do the *rounds* here for a while.

and they finally turned up.. i lead the discussion towards holy spirt and personal relationship with god.

(personal relationship with god is really about interacting with the father, jesus & the spirit, not just the spirit - but i think emphasising spirit is a simple way to get across my point) i was curious about whether or not they had one.

Lily Pie

So, I've been waiting for them to do the *rounds* here for a while. And they finally turned up.

I lead the discussion towards Holy Spirt and Personal Relationship with God. (personal relationship with God is really about interacting with the Father, Jesus & the Spirit, not just the Spirit - but I think emphasising Spirit is a simple way to get across my point) I was curious about whether or not they had one. A personal relationship with God, did they feel they *knew* God. You know.

I brought up These passages, Jeremiah 31:33-34, AND John 3:5-8 AND basically all of Romans 8. My question to them was ;

Does the covenent described in Jeremiah apply to only the annointed or does it include the great crowd?

They said they *felt* they called upon the Holy Spirit, and that they had a personal relationship with God. But they were going to get back to me on my specific question and were going to read the passages I suggested in reference to that question. One of the ladies was really keen, the other I think knew better. 50/50 I get a return visit.

I feel like I've wasted my time even talking to them though. ;( But there must have been a reason God sent them around to me on a day I was actually home - and at relative peace with thier religious choice.

So I wonder - Did I waste my time on them?

- Do you think witnesses do *know* God, even if it is in a less dynamic way than charismatics? I'm not convinced they are *unsaved* as some say. Maybe the enemy has misled them in some important respects.

Lily Pie

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Lily Pie

I would also like to add. If anyone is at a Pentecostal Church, and they are being harrassed about attending, or they are being told that speaking in tongues is *nessesary*. Then I advise you to keep away. This is not what a relationship with God is about.

You will know them by thier fruit. HAHA.... such a JW catch-phrase. But seriously check out the fruit of a congregation before you give them money or become too involved, and never let yourself become intimidated.

Good advise for all religious involvement.